Driver, application and VRAM requirement?

[Miep]

So, that did the trick.
memory usage up to 218, no errors.

Fine, stock 6.08 working on 2.1 dlls - does the optimized V12nokill whetever require 2.2 dlls or will it run on the 2.1?

[Raistmer]

should run with 2.1 too as I can remember. Good that you able to use your gpu now for seti

[Richard Haselgrove]

So, that did the trick.
memory usage up to 218, no errors.

Fine, stock 6.08 working on 2.1 dlls - does the optimized V12nokill whetever require 2.2 dlls or will it run on the 2.1?

ThE`e's not much in the way of actual optimisation in V12, kill or no kill. A bit of startup delay eliminated, and a higher base driver requirement (but you're well past that limit already). The other change was the priority mods, but they got incorporated into the later BOINCs.

The best step you could take, speed-wise, would be to step up the DLLs. Now you've got it working, would it be worth trying once more with 2.2? Suspend all CUDA tasks after the one that's currently running, drop the new DLLs into the project folder, then release one as a trial. Don't even need to stop BOINC for that test. If ht works, bigger gain than any of those early experimental builds.

[Miep]

Well I upgraded BOINC to 6.10.58 and swapped the V12 back into app_info.  seemed to run, but as usual will have to wait over night.
I dn't think 2.2s will work Richard, the CPU fallback stopped as soon as I had dropped the 2.1s in...
I can try tomorrow, but I had initially V12 running on 2.2 and that just errors out - on 6.08 it drops to CPU. With 2.1 I get load onto the GPU...

[Richard Haselgrove]

I'm really surprised at that - the 2.2 DLLs caused no problems at all when they came out, and the FFT DLL itself is only 1MB bigger than its predecessor (have to ask Jason what the actual difference in FFT processing is, and whether it needs significantly more space for data handling). Trouble is, nobody else has really stressed out 256 MB under Vista before (though IIRC, Claggy eventually got 128 MB running, also on a mobile GPU - or was that just testing the CPU fallback code?)

[Claggy]

Just the CPU fallback code, and it was so so slow,

Claggy

[Miep]

I told you i was running, what I assume to be the bare minimum...
When CUDA came out last year (?) I looked my GPU up and it stated it could do it. Required me to figure out that I needed to upgrade the driver though. It was crunching happily then - you can just about see the increased throughput from 8/09 to 2/10 on the boincstats graphs... but unless I find I have a non kompressed backup of my data partition from that period I can't check the respective driver/dll/client_stat. And that was with aero and 32bit colours - I've disabled that atm.
I was running stock then, so whatever dll you get/got delieverd with 6.08. (well last august...)
It was just the reduced reported RAM from that @!£$ (sorry) 197 driver update that took the GPU out of action for SETI.
I'll see if I can find a backup on Monday, would answer a few questions...

[Raistmer]

hm.... could it be not only driver update but boinc itself update too?
Early BOINC versions didn't handle GPU but didn't load it also.
Currently BOINC is gpu-aware, but this could require some gpu memory too. At least what needed is context creation. How much memory driver assosiated with context by default?.... IMO it's worth to check GPU memory usage with BOINC doing only CPU tasks and w/o BOINC at all too.
Also, maybe try to go to older instead of newer BOINC versions.

[Richard Haselgrove]

I don't see how the BOINC version can make any difference at all. You know the code better than me, but surely there are only two places where BOINC interacts directly with any GPU:

1) At startup, when it queries the device capabilities - calling the APIs in the driver's DLLs, and populating the COPROCS structure. But that would be held in CPU / system RAM - I don't see why changes to this detection phase should tie up any extra VRAM.

2) At application launch - every project science app has BOINC code in it, from the API libraries, to allow communication and control with the core client. But that's built into the application itself - AFAIK, no application picks up any new library code from a later BOINC installation.

The only possibility I can see is that Carola might have been using an even older NVidia driver, possibly Notebook Release 186 WHQL 186.81 or even Quadro FX Release 186 for Notebooks 186.03, which would rule out CUDA 2.3 but might allow 2.2 to run.

[Miep]

@Raistmer context creation? sorry you lost me - you want me to check GPU usage under different scenarios, to see what influences the components have? ok, I'll try.
btw ther's a 'H' missing in your 'IMO'

You made me remember that I have a Boinc directory backup from May. not old enough to check what the GPU was running with or any errors, but stdout(.old) should go back far enough to see what boinc version and dribver Iwas running:

Boinc 6.10.18 and Nvidia 195.62. (while still showing 6.08 tasks) in february
upgraded to 6.10.36, still running 6.08 - but of course with no idea whther it had not fallen back tp the CPU already.
and then with the upgrade to 197.16 and the reported memory of 242 it didn't get more 6.08 tasks - though it took me a while to realize that that was the cause...
dll are from 11/09 and look like 2.1 - no 2.2 in the details tab.
I tend to run latest recommended and newest driver...

I'll have a look for backups on Monday, but I'don't think I ever upgraded to 2.2 dll - if that had to be done manually almost certainly not.
The 2.2 I found in place are most likely from the .36 installer...

[Richard Haselgrove]

One thing I've noticed from the results you've reported recently (pending, valid) is that your elapsed time seems to be ~2.5 times your CPU time, for both CPU and (nominal) GPU tasks. That ratio feels high, even for three tasks (2 x CPU, 1 x fallback) running on two cores. Back in May (main board message 1009028), elapsed and CPU timings were within 400 seconds. Feels like something is eating CPU cycles, more than just browsing would do. Anything in Task Manager?

[Raistmer]

@Raistmer context creation? sorry you lost me - you want me to check GPU usage under different scenarios, to see what influences the components have? ok, I'll try.
btw ther's a 'H' missing in your 'IMO'

LoL, that opinion wasn't "Humble" one it seems
In addition some BOINC versions made check of free GPU memory. And not only at startup. So, if driver version fallbackwill not help, BOINC version fallback still worth to try.
Your priority should be to get stable GPU processing w/o fallback mode and then, 2.2 or 2.3 CUDA DLLs versions if possible. It will give nice GPU speed boost, much bigger then any new drivers or BOINCs.

[Miep]

I thought I mentioned I was using TThrottle to keep the temepratures down. (and I still think its running way too hot)
Now with CPU only it is at about 50-60%, when the GPU generates extra heat they both get around 40% - would have to check the graphs after inactivity, doesn't seem to get logged.

this task ran partly on 6.08 and on V12 - no fallback.

I can give the 2.2 dll another try.

[Richard Haselgrove]

In addition some BOINC versions made check of free GPU memory. And not only at startup. So, if driver version fallbackwill not help, BOINC version fallback still worth to try.
Your priority should be to get stable GPU processing w/o fallback mode and then, 2.2 or 2.3 CUDA DLLs versions if possible. It will give nice GPU speed boost, much bigger then any new drivers or BOINCs.

IIRC, when that code is active, BOINC just suspends the GPU app entirely, and periodically retests to see if the free GPU memory available has gone back up to a high enough level to allow the app to run again. Shouldn't crash anything, certainly can't influence the internal workings of the app to induce CPU fallback. And I don't think it would work under Anonymous Platform anyway. BOINC would need to know how much free VRAM the app requires: it can't get that from the server under A_P, and we've never tested or advised putting it into app_info.xml (and it's not in the specifications for A_P, though I suspect the documentation is incomplete: Gary Roberts at Einstein has certainly got more to work than the documentation says is supported).

[Raistmer]

Richard, could you confirm that BOINC itself doesn't take GPU memory?
If not all details when and how it does anything not matter much. If GPU memory reduced it can influence on science app.